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We Are Guilty, Let’s Get Nevin Approved

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Our date with destiny has been revealed. The golden envelop states that the 8th December will see us be discussed and if any punishment will be dealt out for ‘illicit singing’.

If Article 11.2 is the guide then the verdict is guilty and this is a kangaroo court, a waste of time and they really should just send the punishment or a silk glove to give us a slap across the wrists.

Article 11.2 states:

“the use of gestures, words, objects or any other means to transmit any message that is not fit for a sports event, in particular if it is of a political, offensive or provocative nature.”

Cut and dried then. No political excuse (and it’s beginning to sound like an excuse, a tired one at that) can be used.

There has been some call on-line for a list of definitive songs that we can sing without fear or favour. There has to be a measure, some sort of guide to ensure that we choose the correct ones. Watching Scotland’s Greatest Album gave me an idea.

What would Pat Nevin have?

You see Pat is the man of the righteous, off strong believes and off convictions. He has already made a stand against bigotry at Celtic, single handily defeated racism at Chelsea and quashed homophobia at Easter Road.

If you had to set your moral compass to someone then Pat would be the path you would try and find.

So, what would you have on the list?

I’ll start, I love that song about the World Club Championship. “One, two and then kick, clap, clap. It was the craziest game I’ve ever seen”. That’s what the kids call a real toe tapper.

*Sorry about the flippancy but I can’t believe that it’s come to leading the horse to water for it to survive.


 

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  • paranoidandroid says:

    It’s really straightforward. If we keep singing the PIRA add-ons, the Celtic-haters will make us suffer. They will win. We’ll never get into any English league, and Parkhead will never have the same atmosphere ever again. Make no mistake about it. They will destroy our reputation and our support.

    On the other hand, if we stop singing the PIRA add-ons, we will make the Celtic-haters suffer. We will win. We may one day play in the EPL, and the Celtic hating clowns will have to suffer in silence, while the GB leads the Parkhead chorus. Plus, we can start to concentrate on winning football matches again.

    Is it really such a difficult choice ?

  • DC Bhoy says:

    Its not that simple or straightforward, the Celtic haters are winning and how could they not when are own CEO and manager are giving them ammunition to fire at us. Are you not aware that quite a few people in bonnie Scotland seem to find Irish Catholics offensive as can be seen by the treatment of Neil Lennon, Aiden McGeady and James McCarthy. Do you really think this whole issue is about add ons. What have the songs Fields of Athenry, This land is your land, Lonesome Boatman got to do with Celtic. Nothing. Should we stop singing these too as they are political and have got nothing to do with Celtic and may offend someone that believes the famine is over and the Irish should just go home. Fields of Athenry mentions “against the famine and the crown”. Maybe we should stop singing this too. How about we just drop the whole Irish connection and just be good scots and stick our poppys on our chest and be inoffensive to Scottish soceity. Neil Lennon should go back to Ireland, he wouldnt have been attacked at Tynecastle if he wasn’t so offensive. Oh but thats right. He wasn’t attacked, it wasn’t proven. Scotlands Shame

    • lordofthewing says:

      We are not talking about putting our founding genes in the bin what we need to be discussing is if the songs we sing represent Celtic and are relevant to today. Do they add anything to the support? The Fields, Lonesone and This Land do. They are a joyous celebration. The others like the BOTOB and Roll Of Honour etc I sometimes think are just sung to provoke reaction, which plays into the anti celtic brigades hands.

      I completely agree with most your post but I think there is two seperate issues here and we can’t blur them.

  • TJ Hooper says:

    Aberdeen fans – we’re only sheep sh@gging b@st@ards
    Hibs fans – only two Andy Goram’s
    Falkirk fans – We’re in control (take on the British Gas adverts after Dunfermline captain died in a gas leak)
    Leicester – who let the frogs out (at Arsenal)
    Liverpool – Park, Park, wherever you may be, you eat dogs in your home country! But it could be worse, you could be scouse, eating rats in a council house!

    Any and all of these could be found guilty on that charge if brought up (some of them justifiably).

    Nothing wrong however with applying the letter of the law proportionately to the offence being carried out. Sure the add ons are offensive but really why now and why just Celtic? I recall Spurs fans calling Arsene Wenger a paedophile without repremand and more racist chants than I can recall go unpunished. Every away ground in the country took turns spewing racism at young James McCarthy before he moved south. Just a week ago (immediately prior to our fans being reported to UEFA) I heard renditions of FTP and the Famine Song which are not just add-ons being belted out at a Rangers game.

    For all that there is merit to the charge against us really its a matter of agenda. The police are present at every game mentioned above and did diddly-squat about any except a few people shouting ‘Up the RA’ etc in the middle of songs. It’s hardly even the most offensive of the lot.

    • lordofthewing says:

      Getting into ‘whitabootry’ just devalues the argument IMO. Yes, it’s a dubious reporting method that has seen this boil come to a head but I think it is needed. Yes, we are being attacked but in the spirit of what has went before haven’t went away away regrouped and came back, bigger, faster, better and stronger?

      We need to come out of this 21st Century Tims and the let the others deal with it.

      • TJ Hooper says:

        Don’t get me wrong – I’m all for stepping away from songs that muddy the good name we’ve built up. Doesn’t mean that we can’t see this for what it is though. Its not ‘whitabootry’ to point out the fact that there’s an agenda behind what Strathclyde police are doing and I never said those other fans should be in the docks too beside us, only that applying the letter of the rule rigidly would result in lots of cases being brought. Honestly I’m disappointed that you would belittle a valid opinion based on solid facts in this way. Its beneath you.

  • Gerry D says:

    The idiots aing the oooo aaaa nonesense need to be stopped, its abhorrent!

    I’ve seen it sung out of anger as in hearts last season but it has no place at our games whatever.
    We are much better than that.

    I’d encourage the Irish National Anthem and the Boys of the Old Brigade, minus the add ons, any day, great songs, part of our tradition and whilst not to everyones liking, legitimate songs.

    We need to get a grip of the fools who are making ammunition for our detractors to fire, they dont need an excuse and giving them one is as needless as it is galling!

    • lordofthewing says:

      I said beore there is nothing romantic about a group of bevvied up neds staggering down a high street, screaming the BOTOB to all passers by.

      Though I would argue that the BOTOB has only been a recent 1970’s addition to the song book.

  • Celtic Fan says:

    It’s really straightforward. If we keep singing the PIRA add-ons, the Celtic-haters will make us suffer. They will win. We’ll never get into any English league, and Parkhead will never have the same atmosphere ever again. Make no mistake about it. They will destroy our reputation and our support.

    if its the PIRA songs keeping us from goin to the EPL then keep it up

  • mick says:

    is this because rfc in trouble with tax man and to even things up they pick on the other half of the old firm big tax bill fight it smaller tax bill agreed its owed but not intrest still dont pay ,sfa still issue euro license still getting transfers,hearts no deal pay your tax struggle to pay staff we dont care,why is the 2 clubs treated so differant now 1 up for sale the other nobody knows can only be in scotland time clubs and sfa and spl held to account before all clubs disapear
    ps sorry for any spelling

    • Pujol says:

      Exactly right, mick.

      Martin McGuinness is deputy First Minister in NI, the Queen is laying wreaths in memory of dead Volunteers, yet in Scotland (a country never once attacked by the IRA) suddenly it’s necessary to throw 17 year old boys in jail for singing a Wolfe Tones song. A song, by the way, you can legally buy from the very Amazon warehouse Salmond recently opened.

      There are lots of good arguments against singing certain songs at the football, and I’d be happy to drop some of the stuff we sing at away games. However, let’s stop beating ourselves up when we are ALL under attack from a Scottish establishment (using a politicised police force) that HATES us just for existing.

      • Ciaran says:

        Good post. As an Irishman living in Scotland, I am constantly reminding myself, “I am not a criminal!!”
        The fecking huns that run this country (from media rats to government, well, rats) want me to wear a poppy for at least 6 weeks every year, but I can’t go to the only bit of ground in Scotland and rejoice in my country’s heroes!To celebrate our wonderful club’s origins.
        Ooh Aah up the RA I can live without, but I will sing TBOTOB until I’m in a cell singing it.
        And when I get out, I will sue the b@st4rds.

        I am not a criminal, I am Irish, I am a Celtic supporter.

        • Fionn says:

          I doubt the man ready to break up the thing Rangers fans hold dearest (the British Union) is a ‘hun’.

          If you did end up in court for singing BOTOB then all you have to do is bring up Flower of Scotland because they are about the same as far as offensive goes i.e not at all.

          IF you did still end up in the jail then, don’t sue do go the European Court of Human Rights.

          But to everyone in Scotland opposed to the bill PLEASE DO NOT BOYCOTT THE INDEPENDENCE REFERENDUM just because it’s the SNP bringing it forward. It’s about independence NOT the SNP.

          Saor Alba

          • lordofthewing says:

            Independance would be the worst thing to happen to this country. See the current Bill and attacks on a section of the community.

        • paranoidandroid says:

          That’s kind of the whole point of ditching the PIRA references. They cant touch you, or anyone else, for signing songs that Celebrate Irish freedom. I’d love to see them try. I’d love to see them taking someone to court for signing TBOTOB. We would win that court case, and it would show the rest of the world who the real bigots are.

      • lordofthewing says:

        Fully, agree. We need to man up and be smarter.

        • Pujol says:

          Fionn

          Independence a good thing? FFS, can you not see what’s happening?

          It’s not the English who march thousands-strong through our streets all sumer calling for our blood. it’s not the English media that says anti-irish racism is caused by Catholic schools. It isn’t Westminster trying to criminalise non-racist, non-sectarian songs we’ve sung for decades.

          By the way, the Hun love-in with the British union is a recent thing. They were always the “Scottish club”, but are now trying to give their true base instincts a political veneer. The UJ was waved to celebrate Ulster unionism, not British unionism. the would LOVE the freedom to run riot that an independent Scotland would give them.

          Unless maybe you think that the “Decent Scottish Folk” who think Neil Lennon brings it on himself, who smirked at the “not proven” verdict, who thought Artur Boruc should keep it for the tunnel, and who happily let the Orangemen walk where they want are suddenly going to become our friends and defenders?

          Google the phrase “useful idiot” and fucking wake up!

  • neil says:

    There is nothing wrong with singing irish folk songs. There is more political bigotry in the scottish and english national anthems than anything sung at parkhead. Please do not be swayed by a massive media movement to criminalise celtic and irishness.
    They are saying its ok to sing english or scottish rebel/folk songs but not irish. They are taking the attention away from the real criminals. Believe it or not we have NOT BROKEN ANY LAWS IN THE UK.
    Celtic stands for everyone and everything. The club has proud irish roots and a large section of the support have an irish heritage. Why should i be made to feel like a criminal for singing songs about the times when irish people were persecuted and stood up for themselfs when billy from over the road can sing flower of scotland, the sash and then every july have a big marching band walk down my street singing songs about their victory against irish catholics.
    I think in a logical conversation outwith football the arguement put against us is racist, bigoted, stupid and anti irish.
    Do not turn a blind eye to this and stand up for the bhoys in section 111 as once they are gone it could be you next. Charged with being a ‘scottish’ non singing celtic fan.

  • Fionn says:

    ps

    Pat Nevin is a tube 🙂

  • jockybhoy says:

    I sing along when I’m in the car, when I’m doing the washing up, when I hear them in pubs or gigs.

    The songs are great – romantic, tragic, living history. Neither the songs not the club will die they’re not sung at Celtic Park.

    Would be nice to get a definitive list of what and what isn’t allowed, but I don’t see it happening.

    • lordofthewing says:

      The fact that we are probably heading for a ‘list’ is a sad indiciment of our support and society.

      • Pujol says:

        I disagree, mate. People need to know what will get them arrested.

        The presumption of innocence and the Principle of legality are written into the The Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms. Nothing that any of us does in our daily lives is criminal, unless that behaviour breaks a clearly defined law.

        “Being an uppity Fenian” is not a criminal offence (yet :))

  • ianin440 says:

    Some great posts!
    In the days of PLCs it`s great that the support are concerned with the authenticity of Celtic. I was at the Rennes match and thought that the GB were great with the ,`come on you Bhoys in green` chant. I didn`t remember anything else being sung but I remember that and it was a good night.
    Hoping for another win tomorrow! 🙂

  • johnd says:

    I no longer live in Scotland and to be honest seldom search for any Scottish news. I have a genuine question. Is there any kind of debate at the moment on the very existence of the Orange Order and their marches? Surely if this is the new manner of policing sectarianism in Scotland they are finished and cannot march again?
    This is a huge test for the government. If they are arresting Celtic supporters in dawn raids for singing at a football match surely they will be showing up in Airdrie/Motherwell or any other picturesque hot spot with fleets of double decker buses to cart the ruddy-faced, obese, incontinent Buckfast swillers off to the local nick in their thousands. If not, the whole aganda is exposed and anyone with any Irish/Catholic/Republican/Celtic connections or sympathies (remember you don’t need to be Irish or Catholic to be killed for being a Celtic supporter) knows exactly where they stand and how they will be treated.
    After all the law represents all without prejudice. Justice is blind. I will not hold my breath.

    • lordofthewing says:

      The Act and this debate is only focusing on football games. Strangely enough the marches haven’t been mentioned in any wider discussion that I have seen concerning the implications of the Act.

  • Chucky R. Law says:

    Lickspittles the whole lot of ye. Maybe we should wheel the soup out at half time so we can get fed. FFS. Grow a fucking set of balls. I’d much rather have a half empty stadium without having to listen to this righteous fuckwittery, ye are worse than old women at mass, nudging and tut tutting at the bold boys who are talking during mass. Like i said, Get ta fuck away from the stadium if you don’t like it. Or buy a set of ear plugs.

    TÁL

    CHUCKY R LAW

    ps. ”You see Pat is the man of the righteous, off strong believes and off convictions”.

    It’s ‘of’ ya numpty.

    • lordofthewing says:

      So, you want fellow fans to keep away because they don’t have the same views and feelings as you? How very Celtic of you. there has been a lot of good points made. What is yours? Why do you think singing about the IRA is part of Celtic and why we shouldn’t move on?

      Sorry about the grammar But I have called the pendant polis and they are coming round to arrest me for illicit grammar.

  • Jimthetim says:

    jockybhoy Says:
    “….Neither the songs not the club will die (if) they’re not sung at Celtic Park.”

    >>> I couldn’t agree more.

    “Would be nice to get a definitive list of what and what isn’t allowed, but I don’t see it happening.”

    >>> Wouldn’t it be MUCH simpler just to stop singing or chanting anything with an IRA reference? Problem solved!

    >>> Save that stuff for political rallies — (which 99.9% of the singers/chanters don’t attend anyway!)not for football games which have absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to do with the IRA.

    >>> Forget all of the the “whitabootery” and the references to the orange waddle. Get our own house cleaned up and organised so we CAN’T be accused or roped in with them, then we can watch THEM being punished by UEFA,FIFA and the law….

  • Jbhoy says:

    Can we presume that orange marches are considered as offensive if not more so than any add ons or song? It’s about time the club stood up and said no one is doing anything illegal but its about time people understood the connotations of ooooh ahhh etc, whilst one mans freedom fighter is another terrorist etc it’s not about that it’s about the innocent victims, you can’t say no poppys and still stand by all that oooohhhh ahhh represents.

  • Jbhoy says:

    Ps pat nevin isn’t as clever as he presumes to be

  • Chucky R. Law says:

    Comment still awaiting moderation! Pathetic.

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