GLASGOW, SCOTLAND - MARCH 02: Celtic fans banner against a proposed Old Firm friendly in Australia during a Cinch Premiership match between Celtic and St Mirren at Celtic Park, on March 02, in Glasgow, Scotland. (Photo by Craig Williamson/SNS Group via Getty Images)
The Celtic boss sat in front of the media today and said this will most probably be his final Glasgow derby. I’m going to be perfectly honest with you: I am not listening to that at all. I am not paying a blind bit of notice to it, because he has not ruled anything out completely.
That only further convinces me that there are talks going on behind the scenes about him staying on, and that there are people at Celtic who think that is a good idea.
I am already uncomfortable thinking about the article I will have to write if that happens, even if it comes in the context of Celtic winning the title. In fact, especially if it comes in the context of Celtic winning the title. It would be bad enough to write it after we lost the league, but to have to write it after we won one would be hard.
Not that it would stop me from doing it.
The thing is, this club still is not listening to supporters.
If Celtic were listening to supporters, there are two words that would not have come out of O’Neill’s mouth today. Old Firm.
O’Neill is from a different generation, one which used that phrase all the time. He’s beyond reach on this, just as others of that generation are.
But this is not really about O’Neill’s age, or his previous time at this club, although both things are relevant. It is about the way too many people associated with that era still use the wrong phraseology and this club refuses to correct it.
It is phraseology that we’ve wanted nothing to do with for years.
Because, first, that phrase denies reality. It legitimises lies. It completely ignores the wishes of the fans. Secondly, it binds us, forever, to a toxic support across the city which will forever give the media a chance to claim “a plague on both your houses.”
I am thoroughly fed up having to say that we are not part of any Old Firm. It is a scandal that anyone still uses this phrase after Celtic fans have so roundly, completely and virtually unanimously rejected it.
We want to be judged on our own basis. We want to stand alone as a club and we do not want any association with the club across the city or some of the vermin who support it. I don’t know how much clearer we have to make that.
I don’t want to hear anybody at Celtic using the expression. Not ever again.
O’Neill did it today. Whether this is his last Glasgow derby or not, it is the last time I want to hear that expression used to describe this fixture by anyone sitting in the managerial hot seat at Celtic.
I don’t think I ever heard that phrase come out of Brendan Rodgers’ mouth. I don’t think I heard it from Ange Postecoglou either.
It is a phrase that belongs to another time and another generation. It has no relevance to Celtic in the modern era. I abhor the phrase.
It makes my skin crawl every time I hear it.
It is unspeakably bad to hear it coming from a Celtic boss. I cannot articulate strongly enough how disgusting that phrase is to me, or how shameful it is to think that anyone at our club would want anything to do with it.
Yes, I have heard former players use it. I have heard former managers use it. But I consider many of them throwbacks, and some of them fundamentally ignorant. They do not listen. They do not hear it when fans tell them we want nothing to do with it.
Celtic supporters have rejected that term in dozens of ways over a campaign that has lasted years. The club itself does not officially use the phrase, although my podcasting colleagues and I remain convinced that people on the board still cling heavily to Old Firm Inc.
The media still uses the phrase anyway, despite knowing full well that this club and its supporters reject it. That is unconscionable. The club should make a definitive statement on the subject and put the matter to bed once and for all.
This generation of journalists remains trapped by old language and old ideas. A selfish element drives it too, something I have discussed many times before. They need this fixture to carry that meaning, just as the club at Ibrox does, because without it they are simply covering Scottish football, which most people in the European game regard as a backwater.
But if they can claim they cover the most vicious derby in the world, that changes things. They invest in that idea because it flatters their own sense of importance.
But it is time for Celtic to definitively and publicly renounce it in a way that is unmistakable and undeniable.
Those who continue to use it after that will only reveal themselves to be ignorant, arrogant and out of touch.
Martin O’Neill comes from a time when the phrase was in widespread use. In technical terms, there were a lot of people who had not yet completely renounced it when he first managed this club.
But from 2012 onwards, it became impossible to justify anyone using it at all.
To use it now is to endorse a lie.
It is the most dangerous lie in Scottish football, because it is propped up by another lie. The Survival Lie does not stand scrutiny on its own, so it is supported by the Victim Lie. And the Victim Lie is toxic. The Victim Lie is dangerous.
That is why so many of us push back against it so determinedly.
This is the last time I want to hear a Celtic manager use that phrase. Ever. Full stop. Period. And that’s down to the club itself to get them into line and to impose the sort of message discipline that is lacking across too many parts of the operation.
O’Neill gets more leeway than most because he is from that generation, but I still don’t like it. It still doesn’t sit right. It still proves conclusively that too many people at Celtic are incapable of looking forwards instead of remaining stuck in the mud.
No Celtic manager should be permitted to use that term. That should be made clear to them when they take the job. I don’t care if that sounds pedantic. I don’t care if that sounds unreasonable or ridiculous to some people.
This is one of the ditches I will die in, and I know many thousands of Celtic fans feel exactly the same way. That is how seriously we take it.
There will come a time when no one uses that phrase anymore. A time when we have a new generation of journalists not wedded to the past. A new generation of Celtic fans who refuse even to mention the term. A new generation of people at Celtic, in the boardroom and elsewhere, who push back hard whenever it is used.
This is the settled will of the support.
It is another area where the club ignores us at its peril.
To me, this should be an easy win for everyone at Celtic Park. It is high time we stopped pissing around and made this the official position of the club.
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Far from leaving the O.. F… phrase in the past I firmly believe this board of scumbags will embrace it, starting now and into next season. That’s why Martin went over board with it today. It’s all part of the plan, as was sabotaging our season. It’s no secret DD loves the O..F…as it is all Scottish football has to offer .
I don’t like the phrase either but what else do we have in Scottish football? We’re unhappy with multiple league winners or indeed cup winners. So what else do we do? TV won’t buy coverage of a procession- they want drama and jeopardy.
MON has been away from Scottish football for a long time so let’s not get too worked up about this.
Celtic have also made it clear they reject the ‘old firm’ so much so we witnessed Sevco’s embarrassing “this is the old firm” display a few years ago. Indeed when Celtic renewed the copyright they made a point of saying it was only to stop others using it.
I’m sure someone has already had a word with MOM and anyway he’s got bigger things to focus on. HH.
MO’N could very well be our manager next season. What high profile manager in his right mind would go near this stubborn board? Also, if this is to be the situation, and they heavily back Martin, with players of his choosing, it might not be as bad as you make out. Just my tuppence
Make no mistake, this board will not be ushered out unless seismic strategical situations come to pass. They have sneered at the fans all season. What will suddenly make them have a change of heart? Money is their god and the only thing they care about. They play heavily on our ” faithful through and through ” motto and until fans act with their feet and pockets, nothing will change, although the chances of that happening are 0-0.1%
Factually it is incorrect since 2012 so MON is wrong every time he describes it as thus instead of the Glasgow derby since then.
I heard Sutty use it on the BBC English football roundup at noon on a Saturday recently which surprised me.
It needs removed from the discourse entirely so well done for not stopping from mentioning it JF.
Using the different generation excuse is fair enough with MON, my dad still uses it and since it’s still widespread in mainstream media, any shift would have to come with an explanation which is seen as petty. But it’s not petty, Celtic’s stance should be: we are half of nothing. The rivalry with the latest club playing at Ibrox can exist without the moniker, it can still be marketed as the Glasgow Derby but the Ild Firm is as dead as Rangers.
Ex Celtic players still using it really annoys me, why prop up the zombies?
A good article from James, and you make some good points also Brattbakk. Me or my pals never called it the old firm.
Im not sure I like Glasgow derby either, when I think about it.
Either way, everybody else outwith Celtic calls it the old firm. To other clubs and the media we are seen as a package. I dont see that changing ever….unfortunately but it wont bother me too much.
I’ve never called it the old firm ever.
Unfortunately these games are the biggest events of the season for many of our own fans.
After the great extinction event, at a time when this game didnt take place, our stadium had swathes of empty seats as many lost interest and season ticket holders stayed away en masse.
These people gave this game and the old and new clubs from Ibrox far more recognition than the old firm name ever did.
I have called it the SEVIE game since2012,
I just use my own industrial terminology as most Celtic fans I know don’t even refer to them as Rangers*
We’re playing,
the huns
the orange bastards
william
the vermin
Scotland’s Shame
the mutants
that mob
Sevco
Some of these references to them might not be liked by people but thats how it is for me. My intense dislike for them runs deep.
I am the same age as MON and there is no Old Firm any more, we all know that, at least the True Tims do. We were born to live and breathe Celtic, MON, Sutton and players throughout our history are just occasional visitors, I love them all, but they don’t think the way we do and never will, it is that simple.
I can very proudly say i’ve *NEVER* used that terminology and i never will. I repeatedly refer to it as playing “that lot” or some other more apt description such as “the filth”.
The most polite i’ve ever been is to say “the Glasgow derby”.
I think The Green Brigade banner puts it perfectly, WE ARE NOT HALF OF ANYTHING.
Sevco need to associate with us far more than we will ever need to associate with them. They need us for their very survival. We have proven repeatedly since 2012 that we do not need them. And they know it. And that sticks in their craw.
Sorry Martin but that was a fuckin MISTAKE…
You are a very intelligent person and should know better for sure…
Being a geriatric old folks home dodger doesn’t cut it – For Keevins Perhaps but not an intelligent lad like yourself…
Make amends tomorrow with a win please !
Celtic v rangers
Oneill has no excuses. he’s been terrible in front of the media 1.0 interim and 2.0 interimish. He is out of touch, lacks basics of celtics statistical history, close titles, major european moments long after he left in mid 00s. he thinks that celtic stopped or just didnt do a thing in comparison to his years. He of course is the man who opened us all up to what celtic became, didnt become or can become. We seen the potential and glory delivered.
But, he is insulting to my intelligence with this pish, it’s a lack of respect to us all. whether you care or no. i always mind as wee guy in the hoose, on the scarff bus and uncles and das mates et al would just call it ”got the huns away..” ..”huns in the cup” huns this or huns that. I can genuinely say it has never been anything other than ”a huns game”. now…safe in the knowledge of 2012 and content with that. My huns framing stands to this day as no matter what 2012 gave us…they are still a verminous trampdom of hun cretins and they always will be. The price of rangers dying is a rag tag spawny support running loose. I’t is a small price to pay.
Oneill win the league or no, will never forget the glory days he delivered.
Take this old firm bollocks back to simon and jim and regale them stories of yore. get it to hell from our clubs image.
f the huns
James you still talking absolutely piss talk who cares wat way Rodgers describes it our Martin our anyone else gone ryt sumthing interesting plz
Eldraco @ 4.00pm…
Celtic cannot Play Brora Rangers tomorrow as Brora Rangers played Edinburgh City today…
And there’s no other Rangers as The Cove version are on holiday and The Glasgow version are DEAD !!!