News in the media last night that Celtic may return to the Gvidas Gineitis deal with Torino in January is hilarious because it is the club doing its normal version of spin control to people who have seen the routine so many times that they are bored to death with it.
There are large sections of the Celtic support perfectly satisfied with how this window went. They are happy to overlook the Champions League exit. They are happy to overlook six signings in the final days, three of whom did not even make the European squad. They are happy to overlook holes all over the team, including the big one at defensive midfield.
That is cool. They can retain their total confidence in the people running this club. For the rest of us, January is another insult to our intelligence.
This deal will never be revisited in January.
Why would it be?
The people who did not do this deal now, when it might have mattered and when it could have achieved something, simply cannot be trusted to do it at the turn of the year. They will probably finance it with the sale of a key player anyway. I am only glad Duran does not already have 12 months in the building, otherwise it might be him.
These people have no shame. Trusting their word on anything is idiotic because they cannot be trusted on anything. The section of the Celtic support sufficiently attuned to what we have just watched is not interested in promises of jam tomorrow because jam tomorrow is always promised to us.
In January, when we sold Kyogo, the jam was supposed to come within weeks.
It never did.
But we were promised everything would be different in the summer because lessons, of course, had been learned.
Of course it did not come in the summer.
Summer came and went. No jam.
Ther was a lot of waiting for jam between Kyogo being sold and his being properly replaced. When we failed to replace him immediately, people automatically assumed that somewhere, somebody was buying jam.
But that summer dragged on and on, Brendan Rodgers grew increasingly pissed off and everybody kept waiting for the jam.
In the end, we did not even get as much as a lick of the spoon.
It has happened elsewhere too.
It took far too long to replace important attacking players. Idah left and jam did not come. Nicolas Kühn left and we spent a year and two windows trying to put the right side back together properly. All the while, promises of jam.
Sometime. Sometime soon. The jam is coming.
It never does.
We are out of the Champions League. In an organisation with any meaningful concept of accountability, somebody’s job would already have gone.
I said that when the transfer window closed these people had literally nothing to do until January and this would be an excellent time for some of them to step away from the table because they have no business still being at this club when that window opens.
If they think most people are going to trust them with another transfer window, they are crazy. Some people might be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. For the rest of us, that expired a long time ago.
Their appeasement strategy is going to cut no ice.
I knew when I saw the headline in the Record that Michael Gannon had written the story because every Celtic board, every Celtic chief executive and every shuffling of the deckchairs eventually seems to produce a pet journalist through whom the latest reassuring noises are delivered.
I have no interest in being force-fed propaganda from inside the Celtic boardroom.
I have no interest in being told yet again some hard-luck story when the real story has emerged elsewhere: a board of directors which had Martin O’Neill’s list and did not even seriously pursue some of the names on it.
A board which allegedly had a summer plan to sign a number of key footballers and then watched that plan fail to survive the Champions League exit. A whole plank of the strategy was sawn up and turned into woodchip on the back of a single defeat.
That tells you how serious the strategy was.
If Gineitis was such a key target, we had months to get the deal done. Forgive me if I do not believe for a second that these people warrant another try. If they have not got it done already, why should anybody believe they are going to get it done in January?
We’re not getting the jam. It is like the big pot of stew bubbling away in the corner of one of those Russian gulags during a prisoner interrogation. It is never explicitly promised, so it never has to be served. It never will be.
It is tiresome reading this rubbish. It is tiresome reading how, for the want of £1 million or £2 million, this club was willing to risk major money.
As I said in the piece yesterday, this guy was not simply someone we were looking at to get us into the Champions League, not that we bothered to make the move while that issue was still live. He was supposed to be a blue-chip signing.
In other words, he was supposed to be the kind of signing Celtic could develop into a genuinely top-class player and then sell for a major profit somewhere down the line.
Nothing changed in that equation except that we failed to qualify for the Champions League.
If he was a blue-chip asset before that game, he was still a blue-chip asset after it. The money was there to do the deal. We finished the window sitting on an enormous transfer-trading surplus.
Reporting throughout the final days consistently put Gineitis in roughly the £8 million to £10 million range, with Torino holding out for its valuation and Celtic repeatedly trying to find a structure it would accept.
The precise versions of the negotiations vary, but the basic disagreement was not some enormous gulf in valuation. Celtic wanted the player. Torino was willing to sell him at the right price. The deal still did not happen.
Stephen McGowan’s reporting suggested the difference between the parties had essentially become a matter of structure and degrees, with Celtic trying to keep part of the valuation in add-ons while Torino wanted more of the money guaranteed.
Somewhere between those positions was ground on which a deal could have been done. How difficult is this? If Celtic believed this guy was the next big thing, the next blue-chip asset, if we took the manager’s wishes seriously and if we believed our own scouting and analytics department when it identified him as the player to go and get, then the difference between money paid now and money paid later in achievable add-ons starts becoming close to meaningless.
If you genuinely believe the player will succeed sufficiently for the add-ons to be triggered, then you are already assuming you are eventually going to pay the money. So why not pay it? Get the deal done. Get the player. Enjoy the success.
Every excuse they offer somehow makes the whole thing more inexcusable.
Every reason they provide strips away another possible defence and leaves only the conclusion that they made a mess of it.
Remember the Mika Baur deal.
That dragged on for weeks after personal terms were reportedly agreed because the clubs could not settle the fee. At one stage the reported difference was only around €300,000. By the time the deal finally happened, reporting put Celtic’s eventual outlay substantially above the earlier offers. That is the Celtic way.
Delay. Haggle. Try to shave the number. Try to win the deal.
Then necessity arrives, the clock starts screaming and suddenly the negotiating position is worse than it was weeks earlier.
We have seen the same basic behaviour before.
Adam Idah is the obvious example.
Celtic knew the player. Brendan Rodgers wanted the player. Idah wanted to come back. Norwich knew Celtic wanted him.
Celtic opened with a £4 million bid which was rejected. Things sat in complete limbo until Kyogo got injured, we panicked, we made an improved offer worth more than £6 million plus add-ons which eventually restarted talks.
Celtic ultimately agreed a package worth as much as £9.5 million, with £8.5 million guaranteed, £1 million in add-ons and a 15 per cent sell-on clause.
The exact counterfactual price Celtic might have paid had it acted differently can never be nailed down; it certainly would not have come close to that fee.
They knew what the player was worth to them. They did not want to pay it. They wanted to negotiate it down. They wanted to mess about. They wanted to win the deal. And that is where this club so often gets the whole concept of negotiation wrong.
A transfer negotiation does not have to be a contest in which one party walks away victorious and the other one walks away humiliated. There should be a cooperative element to any successful deal.
This is essentially the logic of Nash bargaining.
The two parties have different interests, different valuations and different alternatives if no agreement is reached. But if there is a zone where both sides are better off by reaching agreement than by walking away, the sophisticated objective is to find a way to divide that value and complete the transaction.
It is not necessary for the other guy to lose before you can win.
If Celtic values a player at £10 million because of what he can contribute on the pitch, the money he could help generate in Europe and the resale value he may eventually create, and the selling club is prepared to accept £9 million, then there is a deal to be done.
If Celtic gets him for £9.2 million, the selling club wins. Celtic wins too. Everybody can win. That is the point. That’s Nash.
If instead you turn every transfer into us against them, sure, you will win some of the time and lose some of the time. But ultimately it becomes self-defeating.
It is stupid. You acquire a bad reputation from doing it. Other clubs learn how you operate. They know not to soften. They know to dig in their heels. They know that by the time Celtic gets serious it is often because the club is desperate and the deadline is closing in. And there is very little incentive for goodwill when your starting assumption appears to be that successful negotiation requires the other club to feel beaten.
That is not clever. It is not hard-nosed. It is not sophisticated.
It is bad business.
Sometimes you save £500,000 and lose a month of preparation. Sometimes you save £1 million and risk tens of millions in Champions League revenue. Sometimes you refuse to pay £10 million for a player because you want to get him for £8 million plus add-ons, even though your own assessment apparently says he has the potential eventually to be worth many times that.
Celtic has spent far too long keeping score of the wrong thing.
Always there is jam tomorrow promised to the supporters. But that promise depends on the club actually being willing to follow through on it.
Nobody trusts them to do that because nobody trusts them on anything.
More than that, revisiting Gineitis in January would require Celtic to go back to the table in a cooperative frame of mind. But that’s not how we work. Instead we’ll spend every minute between now and then waiting to see whether something happens which can be exploited to drive Torino’s price down.
Those are the only circumstances in which I can seriously imagine this club revisiting the deal. If something changes. If the player falls out of favour. If Torino suddenly needs the money. If his contract position alters. If the market weakens. If there is some circumstance which allows Celtic to go back and lowball them even harder.
And if that opportunity does not appear?
I suspect we will once again lose a blue-chip possibility for the sake of a sum so small as to be virtually insignificant to Celtic. A sum which does not alter our ability to post a large pre-tax profit. A sum which does not fundamentally change the vast cash pile sitting in the bank. A sum which, in the grand scheme of this football club’s finances, is barely more than a rounding error. And for what?
To give the shittiest poker players in the business the thrill of believing they have called the other guy’s bluff, only to discover that maybe the other guy was never bluffing in the first place.
This is the jam tomorrow we are being asked to believe in again. If we pay the asking price. If we can get the lid off.
Celtic is under no obligation to buy Gineitis in January. Jam tomorrow is just talk, it’s a promise never said out loud because then someone might expect us to keep it. They leak it through pet hacks so it never has to be explicit.
And after watching them fail to buy him when the deal actually mattered, neither are we under any obligation to buy this story.
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Great article. We are wakening up to the boards bullshit (there will of course always be a section of happy clappers). I’m sure Duran will do a Frimpong at some point. Don’t see him hanging around or the board being able to ignore the dollar signs.
Can’t disagree with any of your article James.
There will be fans believing that this window turned out ok, but with the greatest respect, and like our board continually do, they are missing the point.
We all know we have to win the league every season to have a shot at Europe. After that is where so many opinions differ.
A professionally ran club with competent people in charge, are fully aware of the need of speculating to accumulate.
Be organised, spot the talent, meet the needs of the manager and get the players in the door in sufficient time.
Our inefficients are so arrogant that they believe they know better and gamble every year ! Unfortunately, we can all read their hands and see through them.
Another window, more gambling and another CL embarrassment.
Every Celtic fan should be seeing our club getting stronger every season rather than having the enthusiasm slowly drained from us, in watching these clowns perform so badly !
And yes, my enthusiasm has certainly decreased watching this summer unfold.
We still pray that positive change will happen at our club and the arrogance is replaced by proper progression and professionalism! HH
Squad building — horrendous.
Team Building — terrible.
.
GK — undercooked and loan player is a fail.
.
RB — Quality but wants away / Donovan is a bit raw / 12 month guy ?!? = Work to be done.
CB — Nearly there on one but a bit weak on the other = Quality needed.
LB — Tierney has quality but is well of it and little back up / loan guy needs to get fit quick = Gap seen from space.
.
MF — Weakest area of the team / OK for SPL / getting lapped in Europe.
.
No.6 — McGregor is not the man / AOC needs a bit more fire.
No.8 — Bauer has something but needs more / McCowan needs a boot up the erse.
No.10 — Nygren is a luxury we cannot afford playing in a three.
.
Sorensen — Not exactly sure how he fits in.
Young Bloke — He better be good because there is work for him already.
Youth pipeline — Surely someone is ready to step up?
.
RW — Hassan could be the level we need / Forrest really has it still but please lose the wee guy vibe (plus Duran has stepped in to fill a jersey).
.
LW — Yang and 6 months maturity is the level we need / Tounetki has something but we cannot find it — boot up the erse would only be a start as his Forrest Gump vibe is universal.
.
Jota — we can but hope.
Hatton — we can but pray.
.
CF — Looking better than for a while / two starters and two prospects.
.
Overall our recruitment has been a shambles.
Spending money in the wrong areas / at the wrong time / in the wrong order.
And still not spending enough — the Gineitis debacle is embarrassing.
Nickel and diming your way to global ridicule.
.
Can we never learn — where was the SRU guy when you need him?
We won’t know until January if they buy Gineitis or not, probably not, but what makes you think James that the Celtic fans are so gullible that a half promise will give us all some sort of lift. We all know where things stand, and all we can do is get on with it. If they did attempt to get Gineitis in the door again, it would be the right thing to do in preparation for the CL next season, but are that lot in the board room prepared to push the boat out and do the right thing, not bloody likely. They are not to be trusted we all know that, but please let’s top flogging a dead horse, let’s stop going over old ground, and let’s get on with our season.
Onward and upward.
‘..but please let’s top flogging a dead horse, let’s stop going over old ground, and let’s get on with our season..’
Ach ya poor wee soul, looks like, from your comment, that you were forced to read the article.
The propaganda piece from the board is entirely relevant to comment on as its only been put out in the last few hours.
So its new ground.
‘flogging a dead horse’…as the nonsense from Gannon is fresh, its the opposite of that.
‘..let’s stop going over old ground, and let’s get on with our season..’ a bit of a dictator aren’t you, going on someones blog and telling them what to write about.
The reason for the blog is to attract comments Chris, in case you didn’t notice. Even your own are welcome, no matter your opinion.
stop not top
James, you can have us all jumping through hoops with useless passwords and codes, but you cannot provide a much needed edit button??
It’s all bullshit; the board’s default position.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice; shame on me.
It appears the board thinks you can fool some of the people all of the time.
Surely if we’re going back to the Adam Idah situation and complaining the board were held to ransom, then we can’t expect the same board to repeat the same mistake with Gineitis?
They were prepared to pay £9m and Torino wanted £13m, so surely they’re within their rights not succumb to those demands.
From the Torino chairman’s comments he was trying to call Celtic’s bluff and lost. He’s been left fuming that he brought in two midfielders and played Gineitis in a match during the stand-off, believing that Celtic would fold as they did with Idah and others.
Has anyone considered that the board may have learned a lesson from the Idah fiasco?
It’s like the board are on “The Apprentice” show, but instead of impressing Alan Sugar, it’s Dermot Desmond.
I think the fans that think the window is a success are only interested in beating The Rangers, nothing else matters much. They don’t care about the huge amounts being banked and the lack of ambition outwith Scotland.
Spot on Dan…they’re so predictable it’s completely draining !
Whether they’ve learnt from previous tardiness in terms of paying over the odds, doesn’t really matter!!
Their unprofessionalism and inertia has once again, resulted in an exit from the CL, and even more distrust from our fans.
I hear the “ it’s done now” and “we move on,” comments, but that is exactly what our board want to hear !!!!
“We tried this, we tried that and clubs/agents/players wanted more,” blah blah blah …same old banal trite trotted out every window!
Main message to board & DD…instead of patting yourselves on the back, taking huge bonuses and stockpiling millions, firstly think of how you have endlessly ill equipped our manager & squads for every important European qualifier…
If it ever resonates that it is completely unacceptable, then maybe let someone of professional consequence take over and attempt to right some of the wrongs that are so apparent within our club !
Squad needed rebuilt pre qualifier…normal for most seasons !
Those who say our level is Europa League are maybe not seeing those clubs that continually qualify outside of the top 5 leagues!
Speculate, accumulate and you keep, or should keep, your place at the top table and be confident there!
We wouldn’t be embarrassed if we planned and executed some professionalism every season ! HH
“Nicolas Kühn left and we spent a year and two windows trying to put the right side back together properly. All the while, promises of jam.”
Meanwhile, have some marmalade.
Why buy quality players helping the overall squad and improving our prospects of success when, instead, you can pay almost the same amount to HMRC, in corporation tax!
Utter lunacy
Russian gulag ?
Soviet I presume?
Interesting choice for a blog of a team formed out of intentional British genocide using starvation.
Formed out of British capitalists using food as a weapon to wage their imperialism on the poor but rebellious Catholic people of Ireland.
And here you are attacking the mother country of anti-capitalism, the mother country of anti-imperialism and anti-fascism.
Hmm, so I need a wee analogy about using food as an actual weapon or promise for my latest article so where will I look?
The largest per capita genocide in world history whose starving millions led to the forming of the team I write this blog about?
Nah.
The capitalist British starvation of India by stealing their crops during three massive famines from 1890-1910 resulting in over 40 million dead Indian men, women and children?
Nah.
The repeated British starvations in China using the same methods which resulted in over 20 million deaths?
Nah
What about the British starvation of Iran that killed 10 million ?
Nah.
What of the British blockade of Soviet gold in 1930 onwards meaning the Soviets couldn’t buy food on the world market in 1932 ?
Only Iran would trade.
Nah.
What about Churchills starvation of Bengal in 1943 and 4 million killed ?
Nah.
What of the capitalists watching and plundering for centuries as Africa starved ?
Nah.
What of the British gulags in Kenya in the 1950s where they starved Kenyans to death ?
Nah.
What of the US starvation of 200,000 Filipeanos in 1900 ?
Nah.
What of the deliberate starvation of Native Americans by the colonists by removing them from their food sources ?
Nah.
Let’s have a go at the only country in world history that fought against all of that.
The country that ended the centuries long famine cycle in its own country,no not like the capitalists of Britain who used imperialism to steal others food and let them starve but by nationalizing food production.
This is the one thing that bugs the hell out of me about certain specific Celtic supporters who confidently spout imperialist lies; they don’t know their history.
Seems you are just another one grovelling at the throne of the imperialists when it suits you.