This week saw Celtic Underground have Paul McBride QC on the podcast. McBride last season came to prominence when our club decided to take on the SFA. It was a fight that we won.
The conversation was wide reaching and informative. The QC said:
“I think using the word H*n is offensive. It’s used to cause offense.”
With the implementation of the Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Bill, Salmonds Law, due for January next year, for me this is a warning shot at how the law see’s the word.
The word was grasped on by R*ngers fans. They needed their version of F*nian. The problem is with them choosing that word they trivialise the matter. They had plenty of other things to be offended about but a word that has been used in non-sectarian terms for as long as I can remember is a sign of desperation and pettiness.
Like most things they never engage their brains before they speak.
The reaction on Twitter and such has seen McBride come in for some criticism. Unsure why. Did folk really believe that he was some sort of Celtic superhero? Ludicrous thought.
He did come across at times as a party political broadcast for the PLC but i’m sure the vast majority of the Celtic support would agree with his sentiments that IRA songs have no place at football and should be gotten rid off.
I fully understand the arguments for these songs, I have fully backed those arguments but I’m tired now and are willing to embrace that moving on is the right thing to do.
The reason for this? Well, I believe that dropping these songs we lose nothing from our identity, our heritage and our founder fathers. Nadda. Zilch.
The law has been changed so that singing of these songs is now captured. Yes, it’s a cop out and appeals to the persecuted default setting to shout loudly against this bill. Those shouting loudly will eventually be drowned out by the rustling of court papers on a Monday morning.
I do fear the common sense approach that Mr McBride says will be taken. I see more of an make an example of approach to applying this law. Many innocents maybe lost in the battle.
So lets have a song debate.
Previously on thecelticblog
I agree it’s time to give the ra songs a rest ..at games..in private company fine, as someone who sang the lot in the old jungle I will understand the GB and younger fans say ..”get stuffed songs not racist or sectarian” ..however, the rankers are using this as a stick to beat us with to mask their vivid sectarian/racist hatred
we need to be savvy and stick to the whole range of celtic and traditional songs (old and new) that celebrate our irish heritage..give them nothing to bleat about and see what they have left to complain about next.
I can also give up ‘huns’ … if it means me and my kids are not subjected to FTP/TFS/BB Fenian B etc, etc
Compromise to get what I want …yeah of course
Hail hail
SBB
The argument you will get is why should we compromise when they are changing the law to ensure the songs we sing are illegal?
Fair point, tho’ doubt the change in law can be enforced the way they want to use it. Imo.
I would like to think we can choose to tidy up some elements of our behaviour inside grounds.
was at Cardiff last night and some of the songs sung by some if the guys there made me and some others cringe..really hope we are not going back to ‘roamin’ in the gloamin”
HH
I sometimes think that pre-season brings out the worst in some elements in our support and wouldn’t be to worried that it is an indictor of what’s to come.
I’m a little surprised about the opposition that interview has stirred, but am glad it has generated some debate. I agree with your comment that parts of it sounded like a party political broadcast however, in terms of that, I felt the George Galloway interview was far worse and I thought he was an insufferable bore and a complete windbag.
For better or worse, I thought McBride was talking from the heart. I don’t agree with everything that he said, I feel the legislation that is going through is terribly thought out and far too generalized. On the song debate. In my opinion, I don’t think we can reasonably complain about the Rangers song book and then turn around and have fans that sing songs about the IRA. I think it devalues what Celtic is all about to celebrate a terrorist organization that is deliberately responsible for the deaths of innocent civilians. People say that it’s part of our tradition. That is complete sh*t and purile romanticism.
I realize we have a huge minority of fans that glorify that attitude whereas Rangers have a much larger problem. Let’s just all cut it out and enjoy the game. We have a vast songbook from which to pick and dropping those songs will not make a difference to the atmosphere at Celtic Park nor impact our proud Irish roots and traditions that make our club great.
Heh, I thought Galloway was just Galloway. Interesting, egotistical, self deprecating and a blawhard.
will this new legislation include flags? will people use this legislation to try and get Celtic to take down the irish flag as they tried to do once before.?
In a word No.
Agree with the sentiments but see it as two separate issues.
1) the songs dont really encapsulate what we’d like the world to see us as – open and inclusive.
2) the law has been phrased in such a way as to criminalise behaviour that was not previously considered likely to see you nicked.
The proposed law was ridiculous in that it could be construed to be applicable to almost anything said by any fan. Aberdeen fans who sing ‘were only sheep-sh***ing b*****rds’ in joking self depreciation could find themselves accosted on charges against their own fans! It stunk of forced compromise so that Celtic fans had to modify their behaviour because that is exactly why it was phrased that way. Why create a new law for it when breach of the peace is already thrown around by the fuzz as a one size fits all crime? The proposed law was preposterous. Can you imagine the lawsuits somewhere like the US would have if they criminalised ‘causing offence’? The need to be seen to be doing something without picking on Rangers created this nonsense. Common sense should see it binned.
Great post.
Don’t you think that though Salmond’s Law is an arse we need to take a step back and revaluate ourselves?
We won’t lose anything if we drop those songs. We have plenty to chose from.
countrys flags and anthems can not be classed as sectarian or bigoted so if they want to sing god save the queen an wave ulster flags and union flags let them, just as we can sing the soldiers song and wave tri colours that will never change but i do want to see the IRA songs stopped, theres enough pubs and clubs to go to hear these and sing along, i have brrn to plenty but it has nothing to do with football and we should be rising above it
There is a time and place. It’s no longer at SPL grounds.
This new law can only have been made with 1 target in mind, Celtic, of course the law already exists to tackle and punish people for racism, bigotry and sectarianism, so why are people not being punished under these laws? Simply because it’s a huge disproportionate problem for Rangers, we have to be somehow implicated as half the problem, if the law was being upheld right now then it would be very one sided against Rangers, but that’s only because a huge number of their supporters would be breaking the law whilst very few Celtic supporters would.
Only in Scotland could new laws be “made up” to appease the fans of a football club.
Yes we as a support can do more, and issues need to be addressed, but this law is nothing but a way of criminalising law abiding people to just to pander to Rangers.
Great post. It certainly seems that way.
The days of the RA songs are numbered and rightly so . Most of us are well aware of both the history and the troubles on the Emerald Isle and should also be aware that there was a peace agreement put in place . Why do a section of our fans and the orcs continue to beat each other over the head about a dispute in another country , a dispute that is over ? Its time for them to be dragged , kicking and screaming , into the 21st century or chased away from the game forever .
We cannot claim tb o be “open and inclusive” and continue to sing from that hymn-sheet .These tunes alienate some and upset others . I couldnt care less about upsetting the Greyskull troglodytes but there are decent people out there that don’t want or need to hear it .
C’mon bhoys and girls , we ar bigger and better than that
hail hail
So in that case should Poppy banners or protests, which from opinion a lot of Celtic fans agreed with the sentiments, should also be banned?
Poppy banners , like poppies , should be kept for the cenotaph or wherever they want to honour thier khaki clad child killers. I totally agree with the sentiments of the poppy banners but the poppies are not exclusively for servicemen or women who only served in Ireland. We live in the UK and they love to honour their fallen , unfortunately , and its a subject that leaves us in a no-win situation…
protest and be berated or say nothing and be hypocrites
can you honestly say that you think you will see the day when no team in the UK wears the poppy ? It would be great but it will NEVER happen as long as there is a throne 🙁
This season is the last time the poppy charity will ask for it to happen. I’m sure they said it was devaluing the rememberance process.
Thats good news .
To obtain the moral highground we need to be squeaky clean . The poppy protests were morally justifiable but society needs another 200 years before it can accept the fact that honouring any killer is wrong . Sadly 🙁
hail hail
Celtic should have and could have claimed the moral high ground with the White poppy. Aye, Reid was a strong chairmen on this issue right enough.
I disagreed with the protest but believed those who did were within their right to do so peacefully, it wasn’t aimed at the World War fallen as falsely insinuated amongst many with far right links, surprisingly it was the kind of people who are happy to throw nazi salutes and align themselves with nazi organisations and those with fascist ideals who screamed in outrage the loudest!
The irony and almost comical stupidity of Poppy wearing pro nazis is astounding.
True.