Our writer Alastair Moncrieff poses an interesting question – Are Celtic still a Big Club? Read on for his conclusions.
As Celtic supporters we’ve lived through some interesting times, we have witnessed unprecedented triumphs, heart-breaking failure, and periods of mind numbing monotony. Through it all though there has been one constant, something wholly irrelevant to what occurs on the green grass of ‘paradise’, Celtic have always been a ‘massive’ club.
On the face of it the question on which I’m basing this article is ridiculous, of course Celtic are still a big club, look at the size of the stadium, look at the global reach of the ‘brand’. Attendances may be dwindling (for various reasons) but 99% of clubs would kill for a matchday going support the size of ours.
The thing is my friends; football has changed, possibly beyond all recognition and probably irrevocably. The parameters upon which the size of a club is judged have shifted. And stuck in the financial black hole that is the SPL we just don’t measure up any more.
There’s a good chance that by now you’ve stopped reading and are directing a volley of abuse my way via the comments or twitter (bring it on!) but if anyone’s still here I’ll try and illustrate my point a little.
It, of course, all comes down to money, and more specifically ‘moneyball’.
For those not familiar with the concept it’s basically the ‘buy ‘em cheap’ (and young) and ‘sell ‘em high’ policy that we’ve implemented (successfully) in recent years.
Now I have no problem with ‘moneyball’ (except the stupid American name) and it is without doubt the only viable path for us to take. It has allowed us to build a talented and vibrant side, capable of producing moments of genuine quality. That the search for unearthed talent has by necessity been extended far and wide, has meant that we have had the pleasure of watching players who previously would have remained well off our radar. If we weren’t actively looking for players we could eventually move on for a tidy profit, then guys like Wanyama, Kayal, Izaguirre and so on would never have pulled on the hoops, the risk of them not adapting to Scottish ‘fitba’ would have been too great to justify the outlay. Instead we’d have ended up with less talented, older and more expensive recruits, probably sourced from the lower reaches of the English Premier League.
So like I said it’s the way to go, it makes sense on the balance sheet and on the football pitch. But here’s what’s concerning me, here’s what forced me to ask the question at the start of this piece. Our transfer policy places us squarely in the realm of ‘selling club,’ and if we are a selling club, then surely that precludes us from describing ourselves as a ’big club’.
I can tell you’re not convinced, so in an effort to persuade you, I present to you the case of Gary Hooper. In my personal opinion Hooper is one of the most talented players I’ve ever seen at Celtic Park, his movement, his touch and his composure mean that, for me anyway, he could play at almost any level (incidentally I don’t think he will because he’s a fat bastard and his attitude is, at best, questionable). Now even those of you who don’t think Hooper’s ‘all that’ would surely agree that he is one of the jewels in our crown. Hooper is the epitome of ‘moneyball’, he was brought to the club (relatively) young and cheap, the intention was always to nurture his undoubted talent and move him on. The player himself would have been perfectly aware of this; the move to Glasgow was always intended as a stepping stone. The issue here is where his next step will take him.
If the recent transfer chatter is to be believed (and that’s a big if I admit) then our top striker will not be leaving us for one of football’s giants (I really don’t buy the Juve rumour), he won’t be leaving us for regular jaunts into Europe and to challenge for trophies, no one of our best players will be heading out the door with only the prospect of, at best, English Premier League mid-table mediocrity ahead of him.
What this essentially means, is that due to the stark difference in the financial landscape either side of Hadrian’s Wall, going from Celtic to a team like Norwich or Southampton is now seen as a ‘step up’.
If that is the case, and I strongly believe it is, can we really consider ourselves a ‘big club’? I would argue no.
There is of course a caveat to all this, if Celtic ever gain access to the wealth of the EPL then we would soon dwarf just about every other club on the planet. Let’s be honest though, no matter how hard Peter Lawell rubs his magic lamp, there’s very little chance of a genie popping up and granting us that particular wish.
If you feel like arguing/abusing/praising leave a comment or get me on twitter https://twitter.com/allymonc I will always get back to you (eventually)
Boring… Of course Celtic are a ‘big’ club.
A rich club? No.
Don’t confuse the 2 things.
First comment and your article has been deemed utterly pointless based on its flawed logic.
😉
My article deemed pointless because you say so? Not sure how that works. And if you think that in this day and age that the size of a club isn’t linked to how much money it has then you’re mental.
He is hardly mental as you have admitted that we are a big club yet still rich. His point is valid as are most of yours, but you asked the question and the answer is yes.
*not rich. Apologies.
I think Celtic will be playing either in England or a new European league at some point within the next 10 years.It may seem unlikely at present, but Sky etc will dictate what happens..and with the money which will come with it Celtic will then be able to maximise their potential…i.e 2nd only to Man Utd in terms of fanbase.
I’m not sure if it’ll ever happen, but I agree if it does then there won’t be many clubs that can compete with us. Cheers for commenting mate.
Reading this i thought i was reading a charles green release on sevco website. Clubs might have more MONEY , but as a CLUB very few out there come close. Yea some clubs can buy players for more than us , but take a look at their damn balance sheets. And tell us , how many are as close to our debt levels as we are to zero , with a bigger stadia than most , a bigger training complex than most , a scoutin system as gd as any. Then the fan base , dwarfs many in world sport not alone fotball.
Add in the history , the tradition , what the club stands for around the world , n that is a big CLUB
Right you said you’ve read my piece but you’ve clearly missed the point, I know that by most ways of measuring size, Celtic are huge, the problem is when your best players look to further their career by moving to an average EPL side.
Ah enjoyed yer interesting piece.
Ye are an extremely talented writer.
Few ur.
Ah could detect the bulge in yer cheek , fae here tae Haliplug Tuesday.. though.!
The Big “C”.. is always the best wey.. tae
introduce yersel tae the peneral gublic..
Ah like yer style,pal..
Keep oan Bloggin…
jac
Cheers my man, I’m getting a hiding on here so I appreciate the support!
I would agree with Richard. I travel a lot around the world through work and never have a problem finding a group of Celts who get up at all times of the day to watch the games. I can honestly say I don’t know any other club with this level of support.
It’s not about level of support, it’s about players seeing us as a stepping stone to the middle of the EPL.
a talk sport type story just to get a reaction
YOU MUST DO BETTER
Are you Adrian Durham in disguise???
Not a reaction, just trying to make a point, one you’ve clearly chosen to ignore in order to write a sub-standard comment.
I can’t believe you are actually asking that question. I am not wearing my green tinted glasses here either. Attention seeking shoite
I can only presume from this comment that you either didn’t read or didn’t understand the article. I’m far from an attention seeker by the way.
Celtic are not ‘giants’ anymore… It’s not really their fault, as is pointed out above the SPL is a little pond, with Celtic the only big fish. What the first few comments are ignoring is that Celtic used to and perhaps should be, comparing themselves to the ‘giants’. Celtic don’t deserve their champions league spot based on winning one memorable match every five years or so. The top four in England have had a catastrophic year if only two of them get to the last eight… Scotland have had a good year if one of them wins a match or gets to the group stages.
In Scottish terms Celtic are big, but big doesn’t compare to giant, and in English terms most of the EPL can out buy Celtic, pay higher wages, and promise higher standard of football week in and week out.
A sensible comment, I’m going to print this off and frame it! The financial restrictions in Scotland hold Celtic back, and the way football has changed makes that more significant now than it has ever been.
I’m relatively sure the majority of commenter’s on here didn’t read the piece properly.
what an ignorant assumption to make if someone doesnt agree with you.
sadly the modern day football fan is a product of sky tv themselves. no patience and unrealistic thoughts on the game. plus the supporting of teams from another country, which is ridiculous and shallow in my opinion, by all means admire and respect another team or league all you want, but to support it is a joke. CELTIC FC #1
I assume people haven’t read my piece if they slag me for making points I never did, not ignorant it’s just the way it is.
I don’t see how your second point (which I broadly agree with) has anything to do with what I’ve written though.
seeing as you agree with me, geez a job writing for this blog will ya?
Haha it’s not my blog mate, I’m just a guest here but I’m sure the site would be delighted to have your input, just get in touch on twitter for details on how to contribute.
I for one look forward to reading what you have to say!
Yes, it was indeed difficult reading “the obvious” and only your last paragraph deserves any comment:
Any true Celtic fan will NOT want us to take the mercenary route to the Premier League – and there ain’t a snowball’s chance in hell of it happening. We always have been, still are, and should forever be a Scottish side with proud Irish roots.
If only the last paragraph of my piece deserves comment then I’m not sure your comment deserves comment, sorry.
Liam
Foul Blow!
In actual fact..
Anybuddy, who submits a comment.. oan a Public Form
Is
Seeking Attention.
And that…
By the way..
Includes .Yer Guid ‘Sel!
jac
Jac, I have posted about twice on a public forum (this being the third time) I just felt I had to comment on this.
Still laughin!
Shite article but I see his point. We are a massive club based on other aspects i.e fan base, history, stadia etc but the point he’s making is that in financial terms we are not a big club anymore. We cannot attract the calibre of player we would like to due to limited resources and when we do sell players they very rarely leave us to go onto bigger and better things, but they leave to join teams with higher wages, better league etc and this is viewed as a step up from Celtic. Of course it is a privilege to play for us but the wider football community see us as a smaller club now purely on basis we cannot compete financially with clubs from England, Germany, Italy, Spain etc. I think that’s the point he’s trying to make.
So you say it’s a “shite article” and then go on to agree with the points made? I think that makes this a shite comment. Oh and I think I make my point perfectly clearly.
Is this seriously a genuine question? Yes, we are still very much a big club.
Yes it’s a genuine question. Next time try reading the article before commenting.
Yes we are still a big club. We have a massive fanbase, a top stadium and a rich history. Our league limits us though in terms of money and exposure. If we were to join the EPL (or a Euro Super League which I think is coming soon) our true potential will be realised. Until then we are a giant in a small pond..
I think we’re on the same page Sean, it just depends on how you measure the size of a club, stuck in the SPL we’re in danger of being left behind.
We will indeed always be one of the biggest clubs in world football. But this incessant clamour to get to England is a total non starter. Anyway, why should we desert the league we’ve graced for the past 125 years – and from which we have won a European Cup, reached another final, plus the 2003 Uefa Cup final?
Times may have radically changed, but the English bubble will burst one day and they’ll be back to square one, too. Plus, how many senior clubs in world football have switched countries – in living memory – because the ‘grass is greener’ elsewhere? After all, our domestic games are what really count – anything else is not only a bonus but also a by product of our success at home.
This piece was never meant to be about a move to England or elsewhere, it’s about what the financial realities of being in the SPL mean for our standing in the modern game.
I’ll maybe deal with the whole EPL thing another time, once the abuse for this piece has died down!
Oh c’mon Ally, don’t be such a sensitive soul – your final paragraph alludes to the Premiership, with Peter Lawwell and his ‘magic lamp’, not to mention a ‘genie granting us that particular wish’. So it’s clearly at least one thing which you, and I know you’re not alone, would love to see come about.
But just because we can no longer compete on the bigger European stage as far as being able to buy anyone costing more than a few million? That, however, puts our recent European achievements on a par with those big spenders, some of whom are no longer even in the competition.
I think we should not only be justifiably proud of how well we’ve done, but we need to be realistic that we’ve punched well above our weight and the last 16 is honestly a bonus – in more ways than one.
Haha I’m far from sensitive mate it’s just I always try to reply to any comments on my work but it’s driving me insane, I need a break!
I see what you mean with that last paragraph but when I said ‘us’ I meant the club (who clearly want a move to EPL) it’s not my personal opinion, my fault for wording it poorly.
Oh and I think our achievements in Europe this season are nothing short of astounding and I could not be more proud.
Has Jabba been whispering in your ear? What a crass question.
What have Rangers got to do with this? Please read the article before commenting.
First definition of ‘big’ in the Oxford dictionary: “of considerable size or extent”. Take away all the clubs that buy and sell on players and there are almost none left. What exactly is your point?
ps. I didn’t mention Rangers, you did. I was referring to Jabba’s condescending articles disguised as journalism over the years regarding Celtic.
Sorry, thought you meant in his new role at Rangers. My point is the way we define big has changed.
Remember the MSM mantra regarding Henrik? “Yes, but can he do it against the really, really, really big teams?” Enough of this tosh.
That’s really not the point I’m making, and to be honest you’d struggle to find a bigger Henrik fan than me.
celtic are a huge club ,unfortunately skys money has made the likes of norwich sunderland etc massive wage payers .plus the so called “best league in world ” factor kicks in .impossible to compete with financially so yes we are held back by spl .however we are a scottish club which wont change anytime soon so we have to strive to compete financially however we can ,if that means buying rough gems polishing them and selling them on then so be it .
Cheers mate, I think we broadly agree here. I admit the title of the article was a bit of a wind up but my point remains valid(ish).
I think I see the arguement you are trying to make but if you go further back in the 70’s Lou Macari went to Man Utd who had just been promoted. Davey Hay went to Chelsea who were mid table. Even Charlie Nicholas went to Arsenal who would win an FA cup every 4 years at that time.
Look into the nineties Van Hooidonk went to Forrest who were relegated. Di Canio went to, I think, Sheffield Wednesday.
The only players to genuinely have gone to huge clubs were Dalglish who went the the Euro Cup winners and Larson who went to Barcelona.
Now I believe you are correct in that money has completely distorted club finances. It is no coincidence that Barcelona, Man Utd, Arsenal, Bayern Munich, and Real Madrid are perenial attenders at the CL money fest and over a period of twenty years this comes to somewhere in the region of £400M of a difference just from participation in this competition alone.
It is no coincidence that Liverpool have diminished as a club since winning the CL. As each year passes that they fail to qualify they slip further down the pecking order of ‘big’ clubs.
In short Celtic have always been a selling club given the examples above but I suppose it is in the hearts of supporters that we are a big club whereas in reality we are belittled by an ignorant press south of the border who send this story into the ether to be consumed by all.
However we may be classed financially the commentatorsand pundits know a good atmosphere when they see one and I think Celtic Park is in mosts top four or five venues on CL night.
Ally, your assessment of Hooper tells me that you’re very young and haven’t seen many if the great payers that have played for Celtic. Hooper is a very good finisher, though not a great footballer, albeit I think he’s improving ll the time. As a Celt ic fan of many years, I’ve long since stopped worrying over players leaving (nothing hurts after Dalglish left). Celtic have an ideal model right now which they should continue with, albeit it is a difficult balance, until we can Mach the crazy money that is afforded (yet unmerited) best marketed league in the world (courtesy of Sky (who should be paying more the their British viewers in Scotland and helping improve the game)).
Sorry for the spelling in last post (blame this device). I wouldn’t agree that Celtic have been a selling club as such over the years,due to the infrequent rate of selling our assets. If the price is right, all clubs sell, just ask Man U.
You’re right Joe I’m in my mid-twenties, I should have made that clear. It’s not that I’m all that worried about selling players, almost every club does it, it’s just that now we look like setting ourselves up as a ‘selling club’ and some players see us just as a stepping stone.
Oh and yes the Sky money unfairly distorts everything.