Celtic’s Enemies Have No Interest In “Justice For Victims.” They Want Revenge For 2012.

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I’m not going to do a major piece on the Celtic Boys Club case until there’s a decision on it one way or another, one with legal force and effect, but the news today that Celtic has offered to open settlement talks is one of the things that this site and others have urged on the club for a while now. It’s the right thing to do, and it should probably have been done before now.

There is so much ignorant nonsense out there on this subject, almost all of it propagating on the forums of the Ibrox fan-base that I’ve refrained for years from commenting too directly on any of it.

Their firm conviction that this was their Celtic Year Zero moment has never wavered, and they have allowed themselves to fantasise about potential consequences which had no realistic chance of ever coming to pass. They have attempted to weaponize this in every conceivable way. The more they built it up, the greater their disappointment was likely to be.

I’m going to use a somewhat brutal analogy here, and it’s one that I’ve not hesitated to use before; that of Donald Trump and the way he behaved prior to and during the second Presidential debate with Hillary Clinton.

It’s a textbook example of what I’m going to say.

On 7 October 2016, Access Hollywood released a tape in which Donald Trump openly boasted about sexually assaulting women. We all know what he said, and there’s no need for me to give you an account of it. It might be the most famous “locker room talk” – his words, certainly not mine – in the history of the world. It was abhorrent.

Three days later, he deflected questions about that at the second Presidential debate against Hillary Clinton by pointing out four women his campaign had brought to the event; Paula Jones, Juanita Broaddrick, Kathy Shelton and Kathleen Willey. All of those women had credible grievances. All had levelled consequential allegations against Bill Clinton. Their backgrounds and cases were known beforehand. They were women the media and the liberal establishment had treated with appalling callousness and lack of sympathy, and I felt bad for all of them.

But in pursuit of what they saw as some version of restorative justice, they allowed themselves to be used as props and human shields for a man whose conduct was beyond the pale.

Similar allegations have stalked Donald Trump for much of his professional life; a 2019 book, All the President’s Women: Donald Trump and the Making of a Predator, includes more than 40 specific allegations. And that’s what those four women, that night, had enabled in their quest to get their own justice.

They gave legitimacy, and perhaps even helped hand over the White House, to a man guilty of his own litany of crimes against other women.

You cannot have justice at any price, at any cost. Because then it isn’t justice, its revenge and that’s a whole different motivation and it cheapens and degrades whatever it is that you are trying to do. You cannot, and must not, in the name of justice believe that the ends justify the means nor that “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” regardless of their own personal history and their own personal conduct. Those women fell into that classic trap. Trump didn’t give a shit about them or getting some measure of justice on their behalf, he did it for himself.

And the cause those women should have been devoted to? The protection of other women? They set it back decades by sitting there next to that guy, on that night, after what the Access Hollywood tape had revealed about him and the things he’d done. How many women spent election night in stunned incomprehension as tens of millions of their fellow Americans voted for the guy who bragged about sexual assault? That’s what they aided and abetted.

Let me use another analogy; this one’s for the lurkers;

If you’re going to call us every name under the sun and wrap it up by singing God Save The King at the top of your lungs, at least make sure that the King in question isn’t protecting an offender who hung out with Jeffrey Epstein.

You get it now? Is that making it clear?

Those seeking “justice” in this case, really did tie themselves tight to some truly reprehensible Peepul in service to that cause, and that always comes with a cost. Those who genuinely do want justice for victims should long ago have disassociated themselves from many of those claiming to be their allies. Their presence in this debate has tainted it from the start.

Their involvement has toxified an issue which should have been handled with sensitivity and respect, both for those who suffered … and for those who stand accused.

Let me repeat that; and for those who stand accused.

I’ve seen people’s names thrown about like confetti in all this, when no evidence has ever been offered to support their involvement, or who very obviously played no part in what took place. I’ve seen appalling attempts by those “investigating it” to draw links between other heinous crimes, which have precisely zero relevance to these proceedings, and that too has levelled accusations at people without the slightest shred of evidence.

But most sickening about all their posturing is this claim, made over and over again, that all they want is “justice for the victims.” But they don’t want justice for victims anymore than Trump did when he sat with Kathleen Willey, Paula Jones and the others that night; these people want revenge, revenge for 2012 and their own self-inflicted wounds.

They are like people who have blown their own toes off with a shotgun demanding that the guy who handled it last compensate them because the trigger went off when they pressed their finger on it. They have suffered. They believe we had a hand in that suffering. Therefore, they want to see Celtic suffer and this seems the most logical route to getting that outcome.

Some of them are actually openly debating what “sporting sanctions” there will be, although what that has to do with justice for the victims they won’t say, because they can’t say, because that’s almost certainly nowhere on the list of priorities for those who have suffered abuse. Not that it would matter since there are precisely zero grounds under which Celtic could suffer any sporting sanctions, whatever the outcome in this case had been.

Their attempts to draw some sporting equivalence between what they accuse us of here and what they were actually liquidated for would be comical if the situation were not one of the utmost serious and the issue of the utmost gravity.

The simple fact is that that what they did broke football regulations. You aren’t supposed to pay for your footballers with a tax scam. You aren’t meant to hide contracts and cheat on how footballers are registered. You aren’t supposed to spend more than you earn.

And yet … none of that even matters in the grand scheme of things, because if we’re being honest, they got away with all of that anyway.

Their entire thirst for revenge is based on a lie. They ran out of money. They went bust. They weren’t relegated. Their club disappeared out of existence. I don’t know how many times this needs to be repeated, and there are some Celtic fans who don’t get this either and have never processed it properly, so once again here goes.

There was not then, and there is not to this day, any mechanism for relegating a team from the top flight to the bottom division because of debts. They went out of business. They died. The club at Ibrox is a different club than the one that existed before. There is no other way this could have happened if that were not the case.

The Survival Lie is arrant nonsense.

The Victim Lie, which is what they clutch to most tightly, is the support pillar that keeps the Survival Lie from collapsing.

Without their status as victims, they have to acknowledge that Rangers died in 2012. The Victim Lie was created to give the Survival Lie a foundation on which it could stand.

At its heart is a question; if their club didn’t die, then why did they need to start at the bottom?

We contend that they did die, hence they started where all new clubs start.

This is a self-evident fact.

But they’ve allowed a toxic myth to grow instead; that when they were vulnerable and weak, Scottish football got together and decided that this would be the right moment to punish them for … what? Success?

So in spite of it violating every rule we have, the clubs and the governing bodies voted to “relegate them” out of the top flight.

This is sheer fantasy. It’s proven fantasy.

The facts can be read in every online archive from that time.

But not only did that not happen … it could not have happened even if we’d wanted it to.

Even if Celtic was the monstrous club they claim, and even if we were ten times bigger than we are, and even if our board was dedicated to their utter ruination, we could not have done this.

It would have taken an alliance of the two governing bodies and the directors and officials at every club in the land, risking all they had, in pursuit of a goal that would have been plainly insane.

Nobody could have done it. 

If such a thing had even been attempted, they would have fought it fiercely and they would absolutely, without question, have won in a court whether civil or sporting, and the cumulative fines and compensation they’d have gotten for it would have put the SFA and the SPFL out of business. Neither of those organisations would have chanced that for one second, no matter who was pulling the strings or sitting on their boards or urged that course of action.

No other club would have supported such a move.

Why would they?

Aside from the momentous financial consequences of being involved in the lawsuits which would have followed, there’s another consideration to bear in mind; if the rules could be twisted like that to “punish” the second biggest club in the game simply because it ran out of cash, why would they not think “hey this could happen to us”?

UEFA would never have permitted it either, and they would have banned every club in the country from their competitions until the matter was resolved.

The Grand Conspiracy never existed.

The idea that clubs “voted to relegate them” is nothing but a lie.

It’s not an exaggeration or a simple misunderstanding of what occurred here, it’s a lie.

The truth is that Ibrox barely suffered any actual sporting penalties, even when there were clear violations of the rules.

They were deducted points. That’s standard when a club goes into administration.

In short, that was a consequence, not a punishment.

The Lord Nimmo Smith case ended with nothing more than a slap on the wrist and a bunch of mumbo-jumbo which Celtic should never have accepted. So, these Peepul want revenge for nothing, against no-one, because what they have convinced themselves happened didn’t happen at all … it is stuff pulled out of Narnia.

But this is their motivation.

They thirst to settle this score, although the debt exists largely in their own imagination, and they don’t particularly care that it exploits grief and pain.

And because they are committed to seeing Celtic suffer, some of those who have been impacted by abuse believe they have friends and allies amongst the dregs of the gutter.

If the settlement offer is accepted, wait and see how many of their “friends and allies” call them cowards and sell-outs because they didn’t inflict a mortal blow on our club.

Because that’s what interests these people, and it’s all that ever has.

That’s all they wanted and all they’re ever going to accept.

This is not about justice, it’s about revenge.

And as I said earlier, that’s a whole other motivation, an uglier one, something diminishing and unseemly, and in this case it is both obscene and without justification at the same time.

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  • king murdy says:

    good piece james….i wonder if “revenge” is the correct term….? maybe “hatred”…fed by revenge?
    as you have said many times….”it’s the hope thats the killer…”
    it’s nothing to do with justice for the abused boys, now men….it’s the hope that the compensation amounts are some kind of a killer blow to CFC…and that is the only way that ugly institution, along with it’s ugly, bigoted, racist fanbase can somehow catch-up with, and , “hopefully” overtake us….
    i was “lurking” on FF and read a thread about the “compensation”…..absolutely horrible….total morons….
    hopefully, brendan and the bhoys can get a result tonight, don’t expect them to win, but a point would be brilliant…..another blow to the scum followers…


    Blistering critique James.
    As you said “ it was never about the victims”.
    It was a base campaign to malign our Club and label our support as ‘paedos’ to accompany the many
    racist and bigoted pejoratives they revel in expounding.
    Paint us blacker than black to divert attention from the perverse dark shadows in the Liquidated Club’s own history.
    Classless then, now and classless forever.

  • Martin says:

    This has been in the hands of Celtic’s insurers from the outset, of that you can have no doubt. Hence why celtic have been silent until now. Insurers always make the default assumption they’re not liable and work from there. It’s inhuman, but it’s the way of the world.

    I welcome any movement to get some semblance of peace to these victims, as true justice can probably never come now. I only hope they are able to piece their lives together, after what has been an awful trauma. Financially this will affect celtic only by higher premiums for a few years.

  • Malcolm Morrison says:

    Clear & succinct, hope our fans understand the need to avoid any such weaponisation! I still get “2 sides of the same coin” thrown at me by folk that should know better but just accept the msm version of events. keep up the good work James.

  • Roonsa says:

    I stopped paying attention to what that lot were saying about it years ago because, as you said, it was never about justice. The only things that matter are that Celtic take responsibility for something they should have taken responsibility for a long time ago and the people affected are treated fairly.

    As long as that happens then fine. It shouldn’t be the end of it, though. Celtic aren’t the only guilty party here and everyone knows that. They are the easy target, though. If there is to be an independent inquiry then Celtic should play their part in that to make sure it is independent and all the facts are uncovered. No stone should be left unturned because it suits a certain agenda.

  • Pan says:

    Well done once again James. Another well composed article which displays the truth clearly.
    The Ibrox club are obscene and an utter disgrace to sport, as was the Ibrox club before them. The comparison with Trump and also with the 4 women is sound. There is a name for people who use themselves in such a way.

  • Dando says:

    Sporting sanctions?

    I personally know one of the victims, he and his family are mad Celtic fans and to this day have no intention of hurting the club.


  • Clachnacuddin and the Hoops says:

    I had a Sevco fan (that I know) rabbiting on about the court case to me about a year ago…

    He knew this, he knew that about Celtic and who did what –

    I advised him to go and report this to Lynn of Police Scotland “L” Division or if he didn’t that he was as bad as the alleged perpetrators and that I might just let her know about his ‘Information’ as this might be vital evidence to the justice for the alleged victims…

    Needless to say – He clammed up, never ever mentioned it again, the utter coward and weaponiser that he is…

    They have nearly 1,000 pages on The Follow Follow thread about this – They are almost as sick in the head as the people they are portraying to be sick in the head…

  • king murdy says:

    like the rest of us….
    totally disgusted at tonight’s latest joke concerning CFC and their european ecapades…
    will someone remind me….why did rodgers return this summer…?
    but hey…..we still have our 72mil in the bank….that’s the main thing…
    CFC ; perennial european losers….
    the victims of the abuse, the same victims who have been looking for justice for years from CFC….the same CFC who have, for years, continually denied they were liable, as CFC BC had nothing to do with them…(even though we ALL knew they WERE linked}…who NOW accept liability….not happy that those young boys were abused and assaulted under the clubs watch, but CFC delayed the victims justice FOR YEARS by their denial. the monies due to these guys should have been paid out years ago, instead, the likes of desmond, lawwell and the likes have had their bank accounts well filled….i hope the victims representatives get the whole 72mil….
    that’s the only thing CFC will regret about the years of abuse….
    totally disgusted with CFC tonight.


      Sorry to burst your bubble Murdy but Celtic have not accepted liability and any ‘negotiated’
      Compensation will be paid by the Insurers who were responsible for the delay in settling the issue.
      There may have been an ‘inferred’ link between Celtic and the Boys Club but there was never any ‘Organisational or Structural’ connection between the two organisations. The Boys Club were autonomous and Celtic merely provided Patronage and a level of Sponsorship.
      It is well known that the pre Fergus Board were aware of the situation to some degree but chose not to act. Hell mend everyone of them for their complicity and silence.

  • Chris says:

    You done well to not give some stick back to the moderator on CQN re lambert14 accusation.
    As it was myself I can tell you that I was banned.
    Plenty of sarcasm was swung back and forth between the diehards and myself causing them to take offence.

    • James Forrest says:

      I got banned myself mate. The moderator behaved like a complete wank last night.

      I will wear it like a badge of honour, because that’s what it is.

  • S Thomas says:

    Celtic should have dealt with this years ago, it’s been a long time coming for these boys now men and their families. I know no money will ever take away the pain that they pieces of garbage and animals did to them, but hopefully it can help in some way. I am glad that Celtic have finally acted, it’s certainly well overdue. I can understand them being angry on why it’s taking this long for any action to be taken, but glad now that Celtic are doing the right thing. With regards do morality, this is what needs to be done.

  • Johnny Green says:

    I don’t buy into the revenge for 2012 accusation as they were singing from the same sexual abuse hymn sheet long before that. They might have ramped it up since then, but only because they are desperate to harm Celtic in any way they can as they strive to catch up with us.

    They hate us, it is as pure and simple as that, and they will use any evil and foul means to hurt us. They have no compassion for anyone involved in this case and the victims are collateral damage as far as they are concerned. They are an evil, vengeful group of subhuman beings that do not deserve to be breathing the same air as us. Even after Celtic do the right thing and make restitution to the victims, it will never be forgotten, and nor should it be, for they will continue to spew their toxic filth for evermore.

    • Kevan McKeown says:

      @JG. For once ah think you and I are in total agreement. Ah don’t think it’s much tae dae with 2012. It’s down tae them havin such a bitter hatred for our club, that and with an inbuilt jealousy of our clubs history of success, that there’s naewhere low enough or hypocritical enough they won’t go, if it means tarnishin our clubs name. Twisted, toxic, ugly minded hatred. Simple as that.

  • DixieD says:

    I only hope that Celtic are professional and realistic with the compensation. I hope it doesn’t turn into a typical Lawwell negotiation leaving the victims to fight for every penny, and their lawyers appearing on TV every week revealing how unrealistic the Celtic offers have been as they gradually increase their offers by paltry amounts. Just get it done Celtic and give the victims the compensation they deserve.

  • John says:

    Just one question James,

    Did they not have child abuse cases of their own?

  • Torky58 says:

    Brilliant piece James, I’m sick arguing that point that there’s no precedent in the laws of the game both in 2012 or now that could see the thirty nine other clubs relegate a club from the top league to the bottom tier of the league system for cheating. As you rightly said they got no real punishment for said cheating and if they’re still the same club, which we know they’re not and so do they, then why did they have to reapply for membership of the SPFL, if they were still the same club surely the old membership would just passed over. It didn’t though which proves your point that the victim lie propagates the survival lie and nobody with a semblance of intelligence could take their claims seriously. This whole charade will eventually come out as they always tend to do and will prove unequivocally that for all their conviction of the perpetuation of a blatant lie(s) and the world will know the truth. I never miss an opportunity to let them know that they’re lying barstewards and as long as there’s breath in my body I’ll always, always call them out on it. I think that’s why there’s so much hatred in their support, it’s self loathing as they all know that each and everyone of them let their club die, they’re all culpable for the demise of their club. The delicious irony is that the very queen they swore allegiance to pulled the plug on them and forced their extinction, they’re so loyal to her they wouldn’t pay her taxes, and she killed them stone dead. They all still tug the forelock and bow to a German dynasty, a family of privilege and great wealth by accident of birth and as you point out are harbouring an alleged paedophile member of their family. That in itself should have them up in arms, if, as their support claims they just want justice for the victims why are they not lobbying for a Prince to be arrested, or is it just anyone who worked at Celtic Boys Club they want convicted, when you point out it happened at a lot of Scottish clubs including their own, it’s all nothing to see here move along. These poor survivors are hurting in ways that are unimaginable and deserve compensation no matter the club it happened at. Our club never told the survivors to go oldco if they want compensation that’s how despicable that club and support really are.

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